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panther |
timeline | ||
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A quick check of Sutton reveals that they left for dinner at 7:00 and were back home about 8:45. Wonder what they were doing before they left for the club? Everyone else headed outside around 6:00.
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sal37 |
Re: timeline | ||
Quote: Wasn't there a lot of kids out? Why would Michael being out be any different than say, Geoff being out, or dozens of other kids being out? In fact this was one night when being out would be considered normal. So why was Michael's very first reaction to the news of Martha's body being found that he had to cover up his going out? |
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Jazper |
Out and about | ||
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Nuke and Panther,
I have no idea whether or not the antics traditionally went on later than 9:15 p.m. but on this night, it wasn't just the Skakels that shut down shop around then. That whole bunch of kids disappeared. I can't really expect that the Skakel clan would be out running around blowing shit up all by themselves. As for the likliehood the Michael suddenly dropping the tradition in mid stream, I offer my own experience at just about that same age. Come to think about it, it would have been that very same Halloween. We didn't have mischeif night where I grew up. Al of that was done on Halloween. I had experienced what was supposed to be my last year of trick or treating the year before but my brother and one other friend was one year behind me and some others so we were going to ride tale and terrorize the neighborhood. We made all the plans we used to. Routes, attack plans, supplies etc (fire works were not allowed or available). But when it came down to it, we felt down right silly when the time came. There was a dance down at the High School. The girls were there. The people with alcohol would be there. And long story short we sat around watching Bewitched until about 8:00 p.m and then drove down to the dance. Tradition has to die sometime. The day the music died, I guess. There was no slow tappering off and we began that day expecting to go at it full blazes. Girls, alcohol and just good old growing up got in the way. If you read Michael tell the tale you can see that 90% of what he writes about fireworks and mischief night is not specific to that night. He is retelling the tales of his youth. What he is talking about could have been applied to any one of several prior Halloweens. When he finally gets down to what seems like that day and night, it still isn't clear if he really is talking about that specific day or night. He seems to jump around in time a bit. At first he says he walked home from school and was preparing for the following night . The following night is Holloween, not mischief night. Then suddely he is walking home again after saying earlier that he got home early. But then he takes yet another crack at it and says he got home when every one else got home. The dude really doesn't seem to know what day or when he did this stuff. He admits as much in saying had had no idea what time they all got home. My point is that it is very possible that this grand building up of the arsenal never took place that year at all. It could just as easily be that he was relating what he had done on several Mischieve afternoons before and that he has no specific memory of what he did or didn't do with regards to preparing for mischeif night that particular evening. Then again, it is just as possible that Michael was out blowing up the neighborhood from 5:00 - 7:00 p.m. went to dinner and had nothing left to blow up at that point. Jazper
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panther |
Halloween | ||
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Yes, Jaz, all of that is possible. However, on the tape (not the book proposal) Michael specifically says "And that particular Halloween..." and goes on to say that his Dad was out of town and then how he came home early from school to get his "arsenal" ready "for the next night' which would have been Halloween. That is what makes me wonder if they had been forbidden to go out on Mischief Night, maybe because it was a school night? Maybe that is why he had to sneak out of the house, perhaps that is why Julie yelled, "Michael get back here" to the running figure?
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Jazper |
Re: Halloween | ||
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Panther,
I guess I get your point and suppose it does raise questions. However, we need only look to the 1975 police interview of Michael to find a hint. In the police interview recorded shortly after the murder of Martha Moxley, Michael expresses the intention of going out that night saying he was going to see if Pugh "wanted to go out". This was with his Dad sitting in the room, no less. The idea that they were forbidden to go out just doesn't mesh. They were out drinking at the club. I am pretty confident they weren't give permission to do that. They were in their father's Lincoln smoking. I can't imagine Dad would have been happy with that. One younger than Michael went to the Terriens. And most convincing of all, not a single person has ever even suggested that there was any restriction on the Skakel kids that night. It is kinda like Pony's belief that Nanny Sweeny was never interviewed. In my opinion the most logical explaination is that Michael, in trying to tell his tale made up the stuff about making the big bombs and getting the arsenal ready that Halloween. The big story about how wonderful Halloween was, especially michief night made for a wonderful intro to his story. It is in fact what he probably did on several Halloweens previously. Probably not that mischief night. Nobody as far as I have ever heard claims there were firecrackers and smoke bombs going off that night. And we can't ignore that Michael also said this... Quote: So it isn't as if they built up this arsenal all in anticipation for this one night. Michael is telling a tale. Jazper
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panther |
tale | ||
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Michael's story is a perfect example of "oh what tangled webs we weave, when we practice to decieve." He shoots himself in the foot attempting to 'cover all the bases."
I suppose "forbidden" would be too strong a word for that family; I'd say more like discouraged from participating in the usual Mischief Night activities, mostly by being at the club for dinner. And it does seem as if most of the activity was over by 9:00'ish when it seems most of the kids had gone home (Helen, Jackie etc.). And as far as a younger sibling going to Terriens', I assume you mean David. Michael is the only one who puts David there, right? Andrea has him at home, on the steps with Littleton after the car left and I don't remember David ever being mentioned as a participant in the Sutton Investigation or by anyone else. Right? |
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Jazper |
Re: tale | ||
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Panther,
I screwed up on the ages. I was thinking John and confusing the "who was old enough to drive" and the discussion about his sometimes being as old as Michaela and sometimes older. Got the two mixed up. Jazper
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EZ PB |
Re: tale | ||
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We're all getting a little sloppy with the facts. I don't remember Michael ever putting David at Terriens, nor do I remember Helen going home at 9:00.
I believe Andrea had Stephen, not David, on or at the top of the stairs with Littleton when she went back for Julie's keys. Julie is the one who put David there. Stephen has actually said he was at the top of the stairs at one point, although there are time difficulties to resolve if one wants to make that claim conform to Andrea's claims. |
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panther |
David with Michael? | ||
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From Dead Man Talking:
"Martha got out. I jumped in the back with David and Johnny. Jimmy drove with Rush riding shotgun." And later this: "My brother Rush decided to drive us home. He was really hammered. Johnny, David and I rode in the backseat....." In the Sutton Report, as we know it, David is never interviewed by the Investigators but is put in the kitchen with Stephen and Nanny Sweeny eating a chicken dinner and going to bed early but I think he disputed this at trial. |
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panther |
Mischief night | ||
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From Dead Man Talking:
"Probably on my father's instructions, and certainly on my father's tab, Littleton took us all to the Belle Haven Club for dinner that night." Could have been to keep them from getting into trouble on mischief night, on the babysitter's first night. |
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EZ PB |
Re: David with Michael? | ||
Quote: I stand corrected, Panther. Thanks. I suppose it's also slightly notable in this context that Rush told Dr. Lesse (in Sutton): "He believes that between 10:00 pm and 1:00 am, Julie, Steven [Stephen], and Michael were at home." ![]() |
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nucular scientist |
Re: David with Michael? | ||
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I like your purty new decorations, PB!
That color works well with your skin tone... |
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mgallagher2 |
Re: David with Michael? | ||
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I like the new avatar / picture / whatchamacalit, nookie. Hilarious.
I could even see it being the basis for a new animated comedy like Beavis&B based on mishaps in the lab and associated disasters. |
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EZPB2.hackedbannedand... |
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Hi Panther,
I wrote earlier: And as far as a younger sibling going to Terriens', I assume you mean David. Michael is the only one who puts David there, right? Actually I take back my apology for this one. Correct me if I'm wrong but it appears that somewhere between Hoffman interviewing Michael and Hoffman writing his book proposal, David got added to the crew of people who went to Terriens... And it's not really clear at all how or why that particular maneuver came about. Obviously it's a very strange change for Hoffman to have made on his own... But what exactly is it about? Did Michael at some point tell Hoffman to add David to the mix? Weird. |
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